(TS150) It came from the 1970s...

[Agronski]

Hi all,

I've been slowly taking the TS150 to bits in the hope of getting it to run better. Right now, right side crank cover is off, exposing the clutch arm - which I thought needed adjusting because the clutch wouldn't ever disengage fully. The plates themselves look quite good, no obvious wear - but I haven't taken the whole clutch to pieces and I don't want to if I don't have to.

I also think this is the first time in years the case has been opened, and I had to nearly destroy the machine screws to get the panel off. Underneath it all, though, is a good-looking chain, the chain-gaiter rubbers are still completely sound...but the case is full of thick black grease that I really want to get rid of, since I'm pretty sure it's the original lubrication on the bike, circa 1978. This stuff certainly looks, feels and stinks like 30-year-old white/lithium grease.

Any recommendations for (a) how best to clean this old crud out, (b) what to replace it with, if anything, and (c) where I put this stuff anyway? I don't see any grease-nipple except for around the clutch worm, and there's no way this amount of grease is just from years of people squirting 5ml around the clutch-worm every 1000mi.
___

*EDIT*

Clutch ball-bearing is present and working fine, as is the thrust rod and (I assume) the mushroom bolt inside the clutch. The adjustment bolt is about at it's limit, however, so maybe the clutch-plates have worn out after all? But if the plates have worn out, surely the clutch would slip, not fail to disengage? Or is that the same thing?

[mr_luke]

Do the baby TSs use several coil springs, or a single diaphragm spring in the clutch? If it's coils then I suppose it might br possible that they are out of adjustment. You could check by operating the kickstart with the clutch lever pulled in, and watching the sprung cover plate on the clutch itself. If it appears to wobble around, like a wheel out of true, then the springs may need adjusting so it lifts evenly. I don't know whether it's an issue with MZs, but on other bikes I've played with it's been important to set this up properly or the clutch will drag.

That's something to check while you're in there, but to be honest I think it's most likely that the plates are gummed up with thick, old oil. Changing the gearbox oil may well work wonders!

I assume your black greasy stuff is in the bottom of the casing around the final drive sprocket? If so, I wouldn't worry about it too much! Just wipe away what you can if it offends you. You do want some lubrication on the chain: proper chain lube, either spray on or the stuff you boil the chain in is probably the best bet. You can of course drip some oil or apply grease as you rotate the wheel by hand, but that will tend to lead to the casing filling up with black sludge again pretty quickly!

[mr_luke]

Just re-read your post, and it looks as though you haven't removed left hand cover yet, so you won't be able to see the clutch itself? If that's the case I would definitely try changing the oil first!

[therealche]

Its a bit confusing Mr Luke, but I think both covers have been removed, if he can see the clutch plates AND the chain

TS150 clutch uses 6 coil springs, held in place by tiny easily lost pins and cups ( don't ask!)

The grease will be stuff applied to the chain over the years, as being a pain removing the chain, people just slap a bit more on the front sprocket and let it get carried around. I would clean it out with paraffin. Probably worth removing the chain and washing it too, taking the time to check for cracked rollers although threading the chain back through the gaiters and rear chain case is a pain but if you decide to do it I ( or someone else on here) will talk you through the best way to do it .

What you really needed for the screws was an impact driver and a close fitting bit, takes them out easily and without damage.

Sometimes the end of the clutch pushrod goes soft and bells out slightly and becomes shorter. Worth trying to get it out to check. A quick and dirty way of getting a bit more adjustment is to stick another ball bearing in ( but don't tell anyone I told you )

Come back for advice as often as you need it, there's a lot of experience on these boards and there is usually someone around to answer you reasonably quickly

[Agronski]

Yes, I have drained the old oil and removed the left-side plate also, so I was able to see the clutch. Plates look good (only eyeballing it, but no obvious thinning or cracks etc) and before I took the side-cover off, seemed to be operating as expected - even lift. Didn't try kicking it over, however - will give that a go next. It could just be rancid gear-oil making the pads slip/stick/whatever. The old oil came out pretty dark, but when I put the fresh ST90 in and revved it a bit the clutch seemed to disengage better, so it could just be gummy old oil after all. The thrust-rod end doesn't seem to have belled out much at all.

I have run half a litre of good ol' ST90 through it already, when I re-assemble will put the other half-litre in for a few miles, then drain and put in another fresh jug, just to be sure. A modern EP80 oil will work without eating the brass, right?

As for taking the covers off - I _was_ using an impact driver with a tight bit, and PlusGas....and a lot of enthusiasm. Even so, almost all the case-screws are now dead. I suspect the panels haven't been removed in 30+ years. I intend to replace them with hex-heads - anyone know a good source? themzshop.com only stocks the god-awful flat-head version.

When I took off the left-side cover, I saw the first two teeth of the kickstart quadrant gear have been ground off, unintentionally. This explains why my kickstart would sometimes 'jam' and not engage the engine. Is it possible to either file them down smooth and get away with fewer teeth, or if not, can I replace the quadrant without taking the clutch off? Or should I just buy a clutch-puller and stop worrying about my crankshaft?
___

[therealche]

You don't need a clutch puller for the 125/150 engine ( unless my wine addled brain is more confused!). Do you have a manual? If not get one from the owners club

http://www.mzridersclub.com/regalia/factory-literature/

Proper works manual makes life so much easier!

[therealche]

Don't know of anyone doing a kit of socket head screws for the TS150 offhand. You could try Burwins http://www.mzspares.com/ or just measure what you have got and order them from one of the many stainless steel screw merchants about. TBH I am not the greatest fan of socket heads. I have never failed getting a slotted screw out of a casing , but have had to drill far to many socket heads off.

A picture of the kickstart quadrant might help, not done many of the small engines but have an idea that a tooth or two are "relieved" on the quadrant

[DAVID THOMPSON]

the 2 smoker MZ bikes will be a good learning experience for you
keep in mind i have found a lot of stuff they did you find in no other brand bike
i would like to have one of the 250 cc bikes just to get familiar with the odd way
they did stuff as a learning experience but they're not very common here where i live
dave
and when you get it running good lock it up when parked
so some clown does not take it for a JOY RIDE

[mr_luke]

If it's anything like the little ETZ, you won't need a clutch puller as such, but the primary chain is continuous so you'll need to pull the sprocket off the crankshaft at the same time. There are alternatives but the proper puller is definitely the easiest way to do that!

[ricklincs45]

Just as an aside, my TS125 kickstart also jams solid if allowed to fully return. Would be interested to know if/how you manage to fix.

Cheers,

Rick

[Agronski]

Turning the engine over with the clutch held in looks to be okay - no obvious wobble on the pressure-plate. Adjusting the setting screw and cable bowden on the control lever, I can get a much greater movement on the clutch - although it feels like it needs a tonne of force to pull it. I know the TS clutches are crude and 'heavy', but this is ridiculous - there a mod/adjustment I can do to lighten the feel of this thing?

As for the kickstart, see attached photo. The 2nd and 3rd quadrant teeth have been rounded off almost totally, the others seem okay and it still engages the engine. Can't see any obvious damage to the driven sprocket, so hopefully unless it jams, no trouble. Might be worth cleaning the teeth off completely, though, so they can't accidentally catch/jam.
___

[den]

why not build the damage up with weld and grind yourself new teeth,

[therealche]

The clutch shouldn't be that heavy. Have you checked the cable run? Make sure there are no tight bends. Also worth checking some clever sod hasn't decided to increase the spring pressure to stop a slipping clutch, being careful not to lose the little pin that holds the spring and cup in place. Also check the basket for signs of wear in the slots, allowing the plates to bind. The kickstart quadrant shouldn't cause you problems, in fact the last few teeth often seem to have been ground down, Have a look at this one on eBay at the moment

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360729063664?

[Agronski]

Seems like adjusting the clutch worm screw until it's snug against the rod is NOT the way to go. Backing the adjustment screw offf by a turn-and-a-half lightened the clutch a lot, as has the half-litre of new, clean ST90....

[Don't have a MIG/TIG/Buzz-box to hand, and was never much good at it anyway - for now, the kickstart engages and doesn't jam most of the time, so that's fine.]

New problem: TS really, REALLY doesn't like take-offs. At tickover, dropping into 1st gear with the clutch all the way out is fine (RPM drops a bit, but not much, which means the clutch is fully disengaged), but even letting the clutch out as slowly as possible, most times the RPMs drop gently down zero. MZs are supposed to be low-revving, right? So why won't she even bite until 4500+? It's almost impossible to get going unless facing downhill, and then it sounds like it drops instantly to four-stroking - very low revs, low, slow bumps - not the nice sharp two-stroke *ping* expected. Also feels like no power whatever and throttle response is sluggish at best.

I've tried fine-tuning the air-adjust screw on the carb (nothing) and the clutch-worm screw (nothing except 'weight' of the clutch and where she bites). I will move the needle-clip back to 3 soon, too, since the plug looks a bit dark. Any other thoughts?
___

[therealche]

Have you checked the ignition timing? And what about the air filter.... if its clogged it will strangle the engine