Oil Level

[Skorpion660]

Bike is Skorpion Tour 1994

What's the concensus re checking oil level with dipstick.

Screw all way in and check OR Just resting on top of hole.

Apologies if this thread has been discussed before.

[kman.45]

The Baghira manual states to screw the plug in when checking level. I don't know about scorpions, but the Baggi has a vertical dipstick and plug in the frame, so doesn't really matter a lick whether you screw the plug back in or not, since it only moves the dipstick back and forth horizontally, no vertical movement. But, on the other hand, every other motorcycle I've had with a dipstick has always said to screw the dipstick in to determine level.

[hb7]

Skorpion central here....Dipstick seems worthless to me.
Bike on side stand, engine cold, I add oil until to about
~1 inch below lower screw rim. No problems so far...

Oil pressure is low, and thumper motors always burn some oil.

[Bill Jurgenson]

Oil pressure is low, and thumper motors always burn some oil.

na ja

in the first place a short stroke engine like the xyz is not a thumper, and oil pressure cannot be anything but low is a rollerbearing engine.
Then, some do and some don't - I mean use oil. No well kept xtz engine burns oil. I have three (two Skorpions and a SZR, used to be three Skorpions) and each is dfferent as far as pumping out the oil.
To check the oil in any dry sump engine, the engine has to have been running a while, and to have idled a minute or two before shutting down. Then the dipstick is OK if the bike is straight, not an the side stand. Don't put in more oil than the minimum line. More is just wasteful since the engine will pump it out straight away.

[hb7]

Hello Bill...

What is your new engine break in procedure....?
The gentle break in or the run it hard method ?
Bought it new, broke it in gently (sort of) and it uses a little oil. 300-400ml per 1600km. I run synthetic 5/40W now...
at 52000 km. Certainly 5/40w doesn't help. The back pressure in singles is higher, but I see no visible oil in the vapor return hose (it's clear PVC hose).

regards,
henri

[Bill Jurgenson]

Hi,
for new rings and/or barrel, gentle the first 500-700mls, then change oil+filter and take no more pardons.

I use Castrol 10W/50 RS4T in the street bikes. It is a so-called motorcycle oil supposedly better able to deal with the wet clutch. I have also used RS 10W/60 which is an auto oil with no disadvantages for the clutch or cam plain bearings that I could tell.
In the Skorpion SOS racer I use Castrol Formula RS 0W/40, an auto oil but I have no problems with the clutch and none (yet!) with the motor.
In the Bimota DB1 I use the RS4T as well. It has a dry clutch of course so it wouldn't much matter; I use what I have on stock.
In the Laverda and Mondial I use Motul 3000 4T which is a pure mineral oil. The Mondial has a 13 plate all-metal clutch whcih does not work with more modern stuff. And the clutch in the Laverda is 20 years old and I don't want to risk washing it out with synthetic stuff.

Is the bottom of the airbox dry? It can't be really. That is where the oil ends up as a rule. Some motors just blow it out big-time; a few don't blow at all. Depends on rev-range and crankcase vent, too. My '94 Tour has always blown oil out. It is only a problem with prolonged expressway driving at 85mph or more. Backroads with intermittant revving to the limit creates no problems. The '96 SZR and the '95 red Skorpion Sport are practically dry, in the case of the Sport even at prolonged (200km+) expressway driving at 110mph (true electronically measured speed at 8000rpm). The racer engine has always used a little bit, still does but a bit more but then it gets revved to over 9000 at times. Look at the vent on an OVER racing engine: it is at least 2" dia. not the 1/2" hose on the stock engine.
My racer has a second 1" vent on the cylinderhead.

Of course if you use the xtz engine as it was intended (around 4500, always below 6) there is no problem at all with that tiny vent. But to get an idea, take off the seat and watch the oil tank blow up it cheeks with each stroke at slow idle. Most 50s bikes (and older) have a one-way valve in the vent that closes under pressure; oil is not throw out but it does use some performance since the piston is going down on an air cushion. Racing engines then had only a long hose out the back instead. Or two. My Motobi has the long hose and two! additional vents on either side of the rockerarm cover.

[hb7]

Limit revs to ~5500....airbox is dry.
Though I do remember one 400 km day of high speed freeway
and oil in the box. As far as oil, I use the Rotella Synthetic
5/40W and top up with Rotella T 15/40W in summer.
I have no clutch issues.....I think the motorcycle oils are
over rated. But, I'm willing to listen.....

[Bill Jurgenson]

Limit revs to ~5500....airbox is dry.

at that speed even my Tour is "almost" dry.

I agree with you about the oil. Rotella is fine. Any reputable oil is fine as long as it is synthetic and thin for a modern engine.
What I don't agree with is the use of elcheapo 5$/gallon oil. Fine with me, too, as long as those only ruin their their own engines. It's when they preach that the junk is just as good as the high-priced stuff and using good oil like Rotella or Castrol etc is a waste of money.

[hb7]

Bill,

What type of antifreeze/coolant do you use.....?
This is a more important question.

silicate formula : I don't use this.

OAT organic type : I use this, but I'm think of switching to
the Toyota or Honda factory coolants. NO silicates and NO
gasket softening 2-EHA...

HOAT hybrid organic type : Latest MBZ coolant
Low silicate.

Regards,
henri

[Bill Jurgenson]

In the street bikes I use Aral, that's a European petroleum multi belonging to BP, that get at the gasstation which also used to be the shop where I took my car - when I still had a car. I confess that I do not know what it contains.
t hasn't devoured any seals yet, however.
http://www.aral.de/aral/aralcorporatehomepage.do?categoryId=5010&contentId=51461
In the SOS racer only water. Anything else is forbidden.

[keithcross]

In the UK I use Silkolene Pro Cool as this is silcate free.

Keith

[hb7]

Antifreeze can be quite treacherous these days....
BP doesn't make antifreeze...

I suggest the Honda or Toyota OE fluids to be absolutely sure.
What is interesting is that the Asian manuf. had to make their own fluids because they are unhappy with the aftermarket replacement formulas. Honda uses a no silicate and no 2-EHA formula....Use an aftermarket coolant and they will not honor the warrantee. Here's Valvoline's list :

http://tinyurl.com/2fu5az

Why coolant is so important :

In engines that run high temps as normal ( some modern engines are designed to run at over 100 degrees C ) an additive that contains a high percentage of ethylene glycol at 33% or 50% final mix will raise ( not lower ) the boiling point , by doing that , it helps prevent corrosion pitting on the cylinder walls on the water jacket side. Every time a bubble forms on the cylinder wall and collapses , it plucks a tiny amount of metal away , that is corrosion pitting and a picture of the process is here - http://www.ferret.com.au/articles/d3/0c00e3d3.asp