Ok, long story but I'll try to make it interesting. I called the dealer a couple of days ago looking for a klr650. Salesman says that they don't have any and don't know when they will get any. He mentions that he has a DR and a MZ Black Panther. "Yeah, yeah, yeah" I say disregarding that he said anything other that not having a KLR.
I decide to do a quick search for the MZ, and find what may be the most beautiful motorcycle ever made. Then I find out that MSRP is only $6195. I decide to take a closer look at the MZ at the dealer. My initial feeling was confirmed, it is gorgeous.
But reality is also starting to set in. So I have a couple of questions.
Let's say that 3 years from now, I need to get some work done on the bike. Do you guys think it will be hard to get parts for the Black Panther? I know it has a Yammie drive train and that will help out tremendously. My biggest concern is dealer support for the bike down the road. I don't know yet if the dealer, that has the panther that I'm looking at, services them. There also doesn't seem to be much aftermarket support for the bike and what does exist is in Germany and other parts of Europe. With the KLR there is already an established dealer network and aftermarket support. But then again, it doesn't stir the soul like the MZ. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance....
MZ/MuZ Riders
A community for owners and riders or MZ Motorcycles, Scooters, and ATVs.
Looking at Black Panther
Moderators: DAVID THOMPSON, phlat65
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Looking at Black Panther
by shugga » Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:35 pm
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my MZ expeience.
by 125SMash » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:07 pm
although my mz of choice was a 125sm, you may find some usefull points for your purchase decision:
when i just became interested in the bikes, a local and large BMW motorcycle dealerships was listed as their seller and service center.
A year later that same center didnt even want to respond to calls and emails i sent inquiring about the bikes (when i was finally able to afford one).
further inquiries to 'listed' mz motorcycle dealerships return confirimg them selling and servicing scooters at most.
gradually the radius at which i was able to find an appropriate dealer was widening, due to previously listed mz delaers dropping the line either fully, or keeping atv's and/or scooters only.
finally i was able to locate one on the other end of the state (about 300 miles away). seemingly as soon as i bought the bike (and inherited half a dozen dealer-assembly rooted glitches) he dropped carrying MZ..
eventually i was able to find an MZ scooter dealer about 60 miles away, which was willing to service my bike. since some of the glitches made the bike not-road worthy, i had to spend a day and about $400 to transport the bike back home (a friend helped me get the bike there).
the service work that should have been free as pre-existing condition set me back about $70.
this will probably be the only dealer i can take my bike to for any service and maintennace in the remaining year and a half of the factory warranty.
somethings to consider:
1)this is my 1st bike, and i have no prior motorcycle servicing knowledge what so ever.
2)the 125sm comes with MZs own motor, and thus is more problematic to get parts/service for than a baghira line bike with yams engine.
3)there seem to be far more owners and mechanics with experience serving the baghira bikes, so you should have a pretty extensive user support, at the worst case.
4)125's are rumored to be dropped from import to the US, so i will have far more problems getting mine bike than you if you go for panther, as those aparently set to remain here.
5)introduction of the 1000S in the US *might* spur more interest in MZ bikes, and cause more mz dealerships to spring up.
as for me, i love the 125sm regardless.
i love its style and feel, even if alot of that affection is from it merely being my first bike. plus i got it for less than $2,000.
no other brand cold come close at this proce for a brand new, full warranty bike.
however, sometimes i curse my decision for not going for lets say a DR400Z from suzuki or even its kawasaki clone, a dealership for which is about 10 blocks awya from my house (the supermotard version of the DR400 sure looks sweet now).
bottom line is, mz makes gorgeous bikes, but their dealers may have a tendecy to expire due to surprisingly low consumer interest.
if judging by dealer stability, website maintenance, and pull of the 125's it may appear mz presence in the US is on decline, but the 1000S release might do something to change that.
good luck with your choice.
when i just became interested in the bikes, a local and large BMW motorcycle dealerships was listed as their seller and service center.
A year later that same center didnt even want to respond to calls and emails i sent inquiring about the bikes (when i was finally able to afford one).
further inquiries to 'listed' mz motorcycle dealerships return confirimg them selling and servicing scooters at most.
gradually the radius at which i was able to find an appropriate dealer was widening, due to previously listed mz delaers dropping the line either fully, or keeping atv's and/or scooters only.
finally i was able to locate one on the other end of the state (about 300 miles away). seemingly as soon as i bought the bike (and inherited half a dozen dealer-assembly rooted glitches) he dropped carrying MZ..
eventually i was able to find an MZ scooter dealer about 60 miles away, which was willing to service my bike. since some of the glitches made the bike not-road worthy, i had to spend a day and about $400 to transport the bike back home (a friend helped me get the bike there).
the service work that should have been free as pre-existing condition set me back about $70.
this will probably be the only dealer i can take my bike to for any service and maintennace in the remaining year and a half of the factory warranty.
somethings to consider:
1)this is my 1st bike, and i have no prior motorcycle servicing knowledge what so ever.
2)the 125sm comes with MZs own motor, and thus is more problematic to get parts/service for than a baghira line bike with yams engine.
3)there seem to be far more owners and mechanics with experience serving the baghira bikes, so you should have a pretty extensive user support, at the worst case.
4)125's are rumored to be dropped from import to the US, so i will have far more problems getting mine bike than you if you go for panther, as those aparently set to remain here.
5)introduction of the 1000S in the US *might* spur more interest in MZ bikes, and cause more mz dealerships to spring up.
as for me, i love the 125sm regardless.
i love its style and feel, even if alot of that affection is from it merely being my first bike. plus i got it for less than $2,000.
no other brand cold come close at this proce for a brand new, full warranty bike.
however, sometimes i curse my decision for not going for lets say a DR400Z from suzuki or even its kawasaki clone, a dealership for which is about 10 blocks awya from my house (the supermotard version of the DR400 sure looks sweet now).
bottom line is, mz makes gorgeous bikes, but their dealers may have a tendecy to expire due to surprisingly low consumer interest.
if judging by dealer stability, website maintenance, and pull of the 125's it may appear mz presence in the US is on decline, but the 1000S release might do something to change that.
good luck with your choice.
2002 MZ 125SM
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125SMash - Moderator
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by phlat65 » Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:43 pm
smash has some very good concerns.
I own a Black Panther, I have had it for 2 years, and the front brake switch failed, same as a KTM Duke, cost me $11.00.
The dealer network is weak at best, but don't let that deter you. My previous street bike was a 1994 XT600, bought it with 200 miles, rode it till the rod broke, like 25,000 later. I dont think I ever had a problem with that bike. My buddy had a KLR, motor lasted about the same. I am Hard on Bikes though, did prob 10,000 of those miles offroad in nevada and arizona.
almost all parts for the Baghira except frame and hard parts are available aftermarket, or substitutes are available with a little research.
pros: Weighs alittle less than KLR, Has WAY better suspension (full height has fully adjustable Paioli fork, fully adjustable WP shock), WAY better brakes (300mm front rotor) WAY more style!!!.....
cons: Dealer network, parts availability.
All the cool aftermarket stuff is available, 3 or 4 pipe manufacturs, aluminum pannyard bags ( did I spell that right) full rallye fairings and tanks, stiffer springs through local shops....
I don't want to make tha decision for you, But the only reason I would have bought a different Motard would be to race it. not many were available when I got mine, but for street, I would buy it again.
here's a pic of my Black panther, and Brians Silver Street moto..
I own a Black Panther, I have had it for 2 years, and the front brake switch failed, same as a KTM Duke, cost me $11.00.
The dealer network is weak at best, but don't let that deter you. My previous street bike was a 1994 XT600, bought it with 200 miles, rode it till the rod broke, like 25,000 later. I dont think I ever had a problem with that bike. My buddy had a KLR, motor lasted about the same. I am Hard on Bikes though, did prob 10,000 of those miles offroad in nevada and arizona.
almost all parts for the Baghira except frame and hard parts are available aftermarket, or substitutes are available with a little research.
pros: Weighs alittle less than KLR, Has WAY better suspension (full height has fully adjustable Paioli fork, fully adjustable WP shock), WAY better brakes (300mm front rotor) WAY more style!!!.....
cons: Dealer network, parts availability.
All the cool aftermarket stuff is available, 3 or 4 pipe manufacturs, aluminum pannyard bags ( did I spell that right) full rallye fairings and tanks, stiffer springs through local shops....
I don't want to make tha decision for you, But the only reason I would have bought a different Motard would be to race it. not many were available when I got mine, but for street, I would buy it again.
here's a pic of my Black panther, and Brians Silver Street moto..
- Attachments
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- Picture 030.jpg (85.8 KiB) Viewed 6159 times
2001 MZ Black Panther
2001 Suzuki RM125 (full Enduro)
Old Hondas- TT500 Ascott, 305 Dream Touring
2001 Suzuki RM125 (full Enduro)
Old Hondas- TT500 Ascott, 305 Dream Touring
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phlat65 - Moderator
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- Location: Seattle
by Goldie » Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:01 pm
Hi shugga,
if you want something special, take the Black Panther.
Here in Germany dealer support is worse than for the japanese stuff
But luckily the Panther is reliable and doesn't need much attention (most of the bikes).
And someone who knows the Yammie engine should also be able to do some repairs.
If I take a look at your bikes, there seems to be enough overseas aftermarket stuff to make it a little more unique
And some parts of KTM also fit.
Here's a pic of mine with some mods:
if you want something special, take the Black Panther.
Here in Germany dealer support is worse than for the japanese stuff
But luckily the Panther is reliable and doesn't need much attention (most of the bikes).
And someone who knows the Yammie engine should also be able to do some repairs.
If I take a look at your bikes, there seems to be enough overseas aftermarket stuff to make it a little more unique
And some parts of KTM also fit.
Here's a pic of mine with some mods:
- Attachments
-
- Baghi_Berg.jpg (55.49 KiB) Viewed 6150 times
Black Panther 99
KTM 400 EXC 01
KTM 400 EXC 01
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Goldie - Posts: 26
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2003 3:02 pm
- Location: Germany
by Brian » Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:49 pm
I'm only concerned about getting body parts.....as for buying a bike they can keep the Honda/Kawi/Ktm.... they look like dirt bikes... our bikes are very classy looking... I considered the above three.... the only one that peeked my interest was the KTM its almost identical in weight and performance.... I had two dealerships tell me (KTM dealerships no less) that the KTM engines have reliability issues........
Buy the MZ.... I absolutely love the thing, I just bought new heavier front springs, Bark Busters, sliders, Pro Taper bars/risers and Pirelli Diablo tires. I 've got 1300 km's on her now and have run up to 150 Km/hr, no its not a Ducati but for what it is its perfect for me..... I just need more saddle time so I can give Phlat more of a run for his money
Buy the MZ.... I absolutely love the thing, I just bought new heavier front springs, Bark Busters, sliders, Pro Taper bars/risers and Pirelli Diablo tires. I 've got 1300 km's on her now and have run up to 150 Km/hr, no its not a Ducati but for what it is its perfect for me..... I just need more saddle time so I can give Phlat more of a run for his money
"Brian" 2003 MZ Baghira
- Brian
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by FrozenLimey » Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:56 pm
Hi Shugga,
I've got a 2002 Mastiff (same as the Baghira, but bug eyed and less wallow in corners) and have done over 9000 miles, riding it every day as my only transport, through the winter. Reliable? One flat battery and that's it. Servicing has been done at a non dealer shop, mostly to keep the valve clearances in check. The paint on the engine block is flaking off, due to road salt and pressure washing, and there are a few corroded fastners, but the rest of it looks great.
If you want a street bike -buy it, the KLR 650 is a slug.
I've got a 2002 Mastiff (same as the Baghira, but bug eyed and less wallow in corners) and have done over 9000 miles, riding it every day as my only transport, through the winter. Reliable? One flat battery and that's it. Servicing has been done at a non dealer shop, mostly to keep the valve clearances in check. The paint on the engine block is flaking off, due to road salt and pressure washing, and there are a few corroded fastners, but the rest of it looks great.
If you want a street bike -buy it, the KLR 650 is a slug.
- FrozenLimey
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:09 pm
- Location: London, England
by Brian » Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:48 pm
FrozenLimey wrote:Hi Shugga,
I've got a 2002 Mastiff (same as the Baghira, but bug eyed and less wallow in corners) and have done over 9000 miles, riding it every day as my only transport, through the winter. Reliable? One flat battery and that's it. Servicing has been done at a non dealer shop, mostly to keep the valve clearances in check. The paint on the engine block is flaking off, due to road salt and pressure washing, and there are a few corroded fastners, but the rest of it looks great.
If you want a street bike -buy it, the KLR 650 is a slug.
Less wallow??? either you have too many black cans in the cooler on the back of your bike or you have neglected to set up your suspension
although I have to say my fork springs are soft, hence the reason for the new Eibach's. Kawi's and Honda's power drops off alot quicker than the mighty MZ's
Havin too maney Black cans is never a problem
"Brian" 2003 MZ Baghira
- Brian
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:21 pm
- Location: Seattle, Washington
baggie buying
by DAVID THOMPSON » Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:55 pm
hello
i have a 2002 rt125 and a 1995 saxon tour rotax 500cc motor
love the bikes but the parts are slooooooow in comeing
90 days for a head light for rt125 on BACK ORDER since dec 17 2003
love the bikes but the parts supply stinks
ar dave in wv usa
(note april 2005 parts supply has improve some)
i have a 2002 rt125 and a 1995 saxon tour rotax 500cc motor
love the bikes but the parts are slooooooow in comeing
90 days for a head light for rt125 on BACK ORDER since dec 17 2003
love the bikes but the parts supply stinks
ar dave in wv usa
(note april 2005 parts supply has improve some)
Last edited by DAVID THOMPSON on Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dave 2002 MZ RT125+1995 Saxon Tour(500cc)
1997 MZ 660 Traveller+6/13/09 WV USA
"IN the end times the IDIOTS will be in charge
of everything"
"I like the road less traveled if it's PAVED!"
wd8cyv at yahoo dot com
1997 MZ 660 Traveller+6/13/09 WV USA
"IN the end times the IDIOTS will be in charge
of everything"
"I like the road less traveled if it's PAVED!"
wd8cyv at yahoo dot com
-
DAVID THOMPSON - Moderator
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- Location: Parkersburg, West Virginia USA .questions answered MZ 95 up, BMW 1953 to 1979 and ham radio WD8CYV
by FrozenLimey » Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:53 am
Don't know if it helps you lot at all, but the parts supply from the UK importer BSA-regal is excellent. They stock everything! Neil Henley is yr man there. It might be quicker to order through them and ship it across-or not, and the exchange rate is not helpful.
Is the beer cooler an official MZ after market part? Are Eibachs progressively wound, or some aniti-Guinness medication like Antabuse?
Is the beer cooler an official MZ after market part? Are Eibachs progressively wound, or some aniti-Guinness medication like Antabuse?
- FrozenLimey
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:09 pm
- Location: London, England
by shugga » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:28 pm
Guys,
I'm going to go for the MZ. Thanks to everyone who replied. Probably will be a couple of weeks before I get it because I have a trade-in. (Can't ride the trade-in to the dealer yet because of weather.)
I'll keep everyone posted. I'll probably have many more questions after I get it!!!
Thanks again.
I'm going to go for the MZ. Thanks to everyone who replied. Probably will be a couple of weeks before I get it because I have a trade-in. (Can't ride the trade-in to the dealer yet because of weather.)
I'll keep everyone posted. I'll probably have many more questions after I get it!!!
Thanks again.
- shugga
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:20 pm
by Brian » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:07 am
Shugga,
GREAT ! you will not regret it......you will have to get used to people asking what kinda bike is that......put the after market pipe right away, it makes the bike look waaaaay better not to mention the great sound and the reduced weight...are you going with the reduced height ?? I'll post more picts of mine next week with the new tires, handguards, fork protectors etc. CONGRATS... cannot wait to hear first ride impressions......
Oh yea, don't forget the factory cooler and filled with the appropriate beer.... black cans of coarse.....
GREAT ! you will not regret it......you will have to get used to people asking what kinda bike is that......put the after market pipe right away, it makes the bike look waaaaay better not to mention the great sound and the reduced weight...are you going with the reduced height ?? I'll post more picts of mine next week with the new tires, handguards, fork protectors etc. CONGRATS... cannot wait to hear first ride impressions......
Oh yea, don't forget the factory cooler and filled with the appropriate beer.... black cans of coarse....."Brian" 2003 MZ Baghira
- Brian
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:21 pm
- Location: Seattle, Washington
by Brian » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:11 am
shugga wrote:Guys,
I'm going to go for the MZ. Thanks to everyone who replied. Probably will be a couple of weeks before I get it because I have a trade-in. (Can't ride the trade-in to the dealer yet because of weather.)
I'll keep everyone posted. I'll probably have many more questions after I get it!!!
Thanks again.
By the way.... Phlat bought his for $ 5500.00 so did I !!! My dealer in WA state has a red one brand new 2003 for $ 5495.00 I wanted silver so he ordered it for me for the same price
"Brian" 2003 MZ Baghira
- Brian
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:21 pm
- Location: Seattle, Washington
by shugga » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:29 am
$h!t,$h!t,$h!t,$h!t,$h!t,$h!t,$h!t....
Dealer wants 7695 for the Black Panther.
He said that he could get me a 2003 Street Moto for about 1000 less.
Either way, that is too rich for my blood when I'll have to roll in another $1000 for my trade in. This sucks. I know that one of the rags (Motorcyclist?) had the Black Panther listed at $6195. This just sucks....
Dealer wants 7695 for the Black Panther.
He said that he could get me a 2003 Street Moto for about 1000 less.
Either way, that is too rich for my blood when I'll have to roll in another $1000 for my trade in. This sucks. I know that one of the rags (Motorcyclist?) had the Black Panther listed at $6195. This just sucks....
- shugga
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:20 pm
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